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    FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

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    Maximus

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    FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:48 pm

    I could see the value in having FDA approved supplements and whatnot...but I was recently in a GNC and there was virtually NOTHING that was FDA approved.

    What's the complication in having store or online-website that carries solely FDA approved products? I can't find anything of the sort.

    And if it were to exist, would it just another potential avenue for a bribe susceptible priesthood labeling tactic?

    scratch


    Last edited by Maximus on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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    letlight

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by letlight on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:47 pm

    Vitamins and minerals are not subject to the same control as drugs.  They are basically regulated as food.  Virtually anybody can sell vitamins/minerals.  These are, for all intents and purpose, not regulated by the FDA.  This is as long as the producer/seller makes no claim about it to be used to treat/cure a condition or disease.
    You will not find any vitamin or mineral to be FDA approved unless it is approved to treat/cure a known condition and is classified and regulated as a drug as such.  Examples of these are vitamin B12, Folic acid, Lithium salts.  Vitamin B12 and Folic Acid are also marketed separately as supplements in which they cannot make the same claims as when marketed as a drug.

    I had Food and Drug Law at Temple U a few years ago and I learned a lot about this stuff.

    http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/DietarySupplements/ucm070613.htm

    http://www.fda.gov/food/dietarysupplements/qadietarysupplements/


    Last edited by letlight on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)
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    iliketoplaywithexcrement

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by iliketoplaywithexcrement on Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:08 am

    "And if it were to exist, would it just another potentially avenue for a bribe susceptible priesthood labeling tactic? "


    There is a strain of thought in libertarianism that there should be no labeling / approving / endorsing, on the grounds that people shouldn't be lulled into trusting anyone's opinion.

    That the best defense is to be even more skeptical.... 

    When you think of how damaging was the illusion that AAA ratings (on financial securities) conveyed in the last decade, it makes you wonder if we'd be better without the false sense of security.
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    iliketoplaywithexcrement

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by iliketoplaywithexcrement on Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:13 am

    Or put another way, suppose the USDA were to provide dietary guidelines, such as avoiding foods high in fat (fish, nuts, olives, avocado)... advice which would later turn out to be a crock?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_guide_pyramid#Controversy
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    letlight

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    "An educated society is a just society" - me

    Post by letlight on Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:40 am

    The critical habit of thought, if usual in society, will pervade all its mores, because it is a way of taking up the problems of life. Men educated in it cannot be stampeded by stump orators ... They are slow to believe. They can hold things as possible or probable in all degrees, without certainty and without pain. They can wait for evidence and weigh evidence, uninfluenced by the emphasis or confidence with which assertions are made on one side or the other. They can resist appeals to their dearest prejudices and all kinds of cajolery. Education in the critical faculty is the only education of which it can be truly said that it makes good citizens.                                                                                                                                                                    
    -William Graham Sumner, 1906

    http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/critical-societies-thoughts-from-the-past/762


    Last edited by letlight on Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Format)
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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:08 am

    letlight wrote:Vitamins and minerals are not subject to the same control as drugs.  They are basically regulated as food.  Virtually anybody can sell vitamins/minerals.  These are, for all intents and purpose, not regulated by the FDA.  This is as long as the producer/seller makes no claim about it to be used to treat/cure a condition or disease.
    You will not find any vitamin or mineral to be FDA approved unless it is approved to treat/cure a known condition and is classified and regulated as a drug as such.  Examples of these are vitamin B12, Folic acid, Lithium salts.  Vitamin B12 and Folic Acid are also marketed separately as supplements in which they cannot make the same claims as when marketed as a drug.

    I had Food and Drug Law at Temple U a few years ago and I learned a lot about this stuff.

    http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/DietarySupplements/ucm070613.htm

    http://www.fda.gov/food/dietarysupplements/qadietarysupplements/

    Solid.  afro 

    Makes perfect sense, thank you.
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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:30 am

    iliketoplaywithexcrement wrote:"And if it were to exist, would it just another potentially avenue for a bribe susceptible priesthood labeling tactic? "


    There is a strain of thought in libertarianism that there should be no labeling / approving / endorsing, on the grounds that people shouldn't be lulled into trusting anyone's opinion.

    That the best defense is to be even more skeptical.... 

    When you think of how damaging was the illusion that AAA ratings (on financial securities) conveyed in the last decade, it makes you wonder if we'd be better without the false sense of security.

    These are all good points.

    On a personal level, I hate the "market justice" explanation for useless and/or potentially dangerous products. I feel it's slow to act and may not be effective at deterring the producer's behavior.

    iliketoplaywithexcrement wrote:Or put another way, suppose the USDA were to provide dietary guidelines, such as avoiding foods high in fat (fish, nuts, olives, avocado)... advice which would later turn out to be a crock?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_guide_pyramid#Controversy

    Yeah, this is all messed up. At some point, everyone in the 1st world country should watch this documentary. The Men Who Made Us Fat: http://vimeo.com/44450267
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:31 am


    Tonight with John Oliver: Dr. Oz and Nutritional Supplements https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0wKeokWUU&t=10m45s
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    iliketoplaywithexcrement

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by iliketoplaywithexcrement on Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:30 am

    I was all over that when that show first aired.

    There's an interesting split occurring, on the left, between new agey, alternative medicine devotees and guys like John Oliver / Michael Schulson (read his his Whole Foods Essay,, and definitely scan through the comments).

    Interesting because you can see the seeds of a political realignment -- the dividing line switching to elitism & science vs. populism / intuition. That Whole Foods piece ran on The Daily Beast, which is something roughly in the center left of the spectrum. But take a look again at those comments... that doesn't sound anything like a united group.
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:23 am

    In a two party system, there's always chances for an "unholy alliance" on either side.

    This post-Bush Obama period that we're living through, an interesting time, because alliances on the left and right are shifting...but what ever is the end result, will still be the essential division.

    edit: new link - http://droogeroos.userboard.net/t189-the-coming-realignment


    Last edited by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:26 am

    In that Wholefood's article you linked, the author linked to this article: Human Ancestors Were Nearly All Vegetarians

    I don't think the title does justice. But it's a restating the dilemma, of humans trying to figure out what is a "natural" human diet.
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    letlight

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by letlight on Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:49 am

    Read this important article:

    http://visiblefriends.net/getreal/2014/07/a-report-on-gluten/
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by letlight on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:02 pm

    GMOs are terrifyingly dangerous and terroristic:

    http://visiblefriends.net/getreal/2013/09/let-them-eat-kale/
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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:47 pm

    The explosion of new food additives coupled with an easing of oversight requirements is allowing manufacturers to avoid the scrutiny of the Food and Drug Administration, which is responsible for ensuring the safety of chemicals streaming into the food supply.

    And in hundreds of cases, the FDA doesn’t even know of the existence of new additives, which can include chemical preservatives, flavorings and thickening agents, records and interviews show.

    “We simply do not have the information to vouch for the safety of many of these chemicals,” said Michael Taylor, the FDA’s deputy commissioner for food.
    The FDA has received thousands of consumer complaints about additives in recent years, saying certain substances seem to trigger asthmatic attacks, serious bouts of vomiting, intestinal-tract disorders and other health problems.
    [...]
    “We aren’t saying we have a public health crisis,” Taylor said. “But we do have questions about whether we can do what people expect of us.”

    Food additives on the rise as FDA scrutiny wanes

    Is Your Food Safe? FDA Allows Food Industry To Police Itself
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    letlight

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by letlight on Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:43 pm

    Maximus wrote:
    The explosion of new food additives coupled with an easing of oversight requirements is allowing manufacturers to avoid the scrutiny of the Food and Drug Administration, which is responsible for ensuring the safety of chemicals streaming into the food supply.

    And in hundreds of cases, the FDA doesn’t even know of the existence of new additives, which can include chemical preservatives, flavorings and thickening agents, records and interviews show.

    “We simply do not have the information to vouch for the safety of many of these chemicals,” said Michael Taylor, the FDA’s deputy commissioner for food.
    The FDA has received thousands of consumer complaints about additives in recent years, saying certain substances seem to trigger asthmatic attacks, serious bouts of vomiting, intestinal-tract disorders and other health problems.
    [...]
    “We aren’t saying we have a public health crisis,” Taylor said. “But we do have questions about whether we can do what people expect of us.”

    Food additives on the rise as FDA scrutiny wanes

    Is Your Food Safe? FDA Allows Food Industry To Police Itself

    I can't get into something like this if it's not backed up by any science. This article wants to make an argument but it fails because there is no science backing up its claims. Major hand waving.
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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:53 pm

    letlight wrote:I can't get into something like this if it's not backed up by any science.  This article wants to make an argument but it fails because there is no science backing up its claims.  Major hand waving.

    I'm not sure what you're seeing there. The article is talking about the lack of scientific over-site of some food chemical additives whose safeness is questioned.

    It later talked about the problems of opposing agency-backed-scientists whose research results (contradicting results) supported the claims of the agencies they represented.
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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:02 pm

    That later part reminds me of the section of Lawrence Lessig's book Republic, Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress—and a Plan to Stop It, where he goes over examples of numerous cases, where various scientists "prove" that products are both safe and dangerous at the same time. That's important is to follow the funding of the research. Overall, this leaves the consumer in a type of decisional paralysis, not knowing who to trust; if one were interested following through all the dry legalistic and scientific jargon surrounding the issue(s) at hand.
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:09 pm

    Which is why, when I decide to be conscious of the food I eat, I'd rather eat as much natural (or long in human use) food as possible. If these new food additives are healthy, I'd rather watch the effect in other people, rather than be a mass-market guineapig in this whole industrial-food situation.

    ...I'd rather eat the guineapig
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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by iliketoplaywithexcrement on Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:33 pm

    I guess the news here is that religious, go-with-your-feelings type decision making isn't just a right wing thing.

    Which is sad.
    But life is more interesting when things aren't black and white.


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    Maximus

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    Re: FDA Approved Vitamins and Supplements?

    Post by Maximus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:58 pm

    iliketoplaywithexcrement wrote:I guess the news here is that religious, go-with-your-feelings type decision making isn't just a right wing thing.

    Which is sad.
    But life is more interesting when things aren't black and white.

    Over the past decade, I've seen two studies, both claiming that either right wing or left wing voters, vote the way the do because they're somehow overburdened with fear.

    I think both sides are emotional, but are more emotional over different issues. [kinda like what this guy was talking about - http://droogeroos.userboard.net/t188-the-moral-roots-of-liberals-and-conservatives]

    I recall Michael Lind often complaining about the neophobic aspects of the liberal voter coalition. That the progressives, have within their populations, non-urban prairie village fantasizers; that tend to hold back GMO, and geo-engineering technologies.

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